Al,
Again your posts are very refreshing and have
triggered a fascinating thread.
Your correspondences bring us back to the psychology of radon.
We give radon presentations to various groups when asked.
We always allow a lengthy Q&A
segment for all the questions we typically get. A few years ago I was asked to speak
to an AARP group of about 300. I
left a lot of time for the Q&A and concluded with a are there any
questions? No one in the room
raised a hand. I waited for an
uncomfortable period of time for anyone in the large crowd to
respond. Finally an older
gentleman stood up and said, I have been living in my home for forty three
years, why would I want to know now?
I could hear a lot of people softly muttering agreement to the
question. I answered by saying imagine you
have been smoking for 43 years your doctor would not tell you to continue
smoking and then mentioned the
likelihood that a buyer would test when he chose to sell his home. The point is there are diverse
motivations for testing or not.
At times we get very irate calls arguing that radon
is an absurd scam or government boondoggle. We explain in calm terms the
current science and refer them to the EPA & DEP websites. This may calm their anger. But in a number of anger cases weve
stumbled upon an unusual motivating factor. Weve found that sometimes the man of
the house (typically) when questioned about radon by his wife or kids will
read up on radon. Sometimes the
sources he finds and accepts are those in our midst that believe that radon is
not that bad or may even be good for you. He tells the family that the 25 pCi/l
reading that they discovered isnt a problem, just a money making scheme. Ten years later when Radon Action
Month arrives or the house goes under sales agreement and the kids or wife
questions his past judgment. He
cannot allow himself to reconsider his position because it would mean that he
has put his family in serious peril for ten years, so he becomes more adamant
and entrenched.
This same psychology explains why the naysayer radon
stakeholders never change or modify their positions. The advice that they give out, based
on their nonconformist theories or interpretations, often have influenced
countless families to live with radon.
To change or modify their position (that the problem is exaggerated)
would require accepting that their advice has put peoples lives in serious
jeopardy. Our minds are wired to avoid this we
will desperately create reasons to justify our position if the alternative is
that our mistaken assumptions have endangered others.
On the other hand those of us that accept the consensus
opinion on radon risk and provide services accordingly can be swayed because
the worst scenario is; if we have
overstated radon risk we have caused someone to spend some money for a system
that may not have been necessary.
This is much easier to accept.
I love Davids
quote: If you don't believe that you are saving lives then get out of this
business. Amen to
that!
John Mallon
----- Original Message -----
From:
Al Gerhart
To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:36
AM
Subject: [RNPROF] Fw: Risk
communication
--- On Tue, 1/27/09, al gerhart
wrote:
From:
al gerhart Subject:
Risk communicationTo: radonprofessionals@list.uiowa.eduDate:
Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 11:35 PM
Hi All,
We get emails just about every week from consumers asking
about granite and Radon/radiation. Here are the relevant
parts of one exchange that I believe parallels the
problems the Radon industry has experienced with getting
homeowners to take Radon seriously.
--------------------------------------
Hi Al,
I have the Niagra Gold granite, how do I test to see if it
has radon?
R*****-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi R*****,
I've measured Niagara Gold at 25 uR/hr (four times
background radiation levels) and I've measured it at over 1,050
uR/hr ( 175 times background rad levels). I'm glad you got in
touch cause we need to find out what level your Niagara Gold is.
The majority is hot. Where are you located? Can you send
pictures of your stone, including some close ups? Do you have
any scraps left from fabrication that we could run through out
Gamma Spectrometer?
Thanks for getting in touch. Don't worry too much, just get
some fresh air in and limit your time spent close to the stone
till you know the radiation levels you are dealing with.
Thanks,
Al
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Al,
I have contacted the place where I purchased. I did ask
when I picked it out because I had done some research on
granite. He told me it had been tested at the Quarry and again
at their shop. My understanding is that Radon is not the same as
radiation and I actually have a report that states granite is
safe.
I am purchasing a radon detector and the company I
purchased said they would find someone to test it if I wanted,
so I feel much better than when I e-mailed you earlier. Thank
you for your quick response.-
R*****
----------------------------------------
Hi R*****,
This report they gave you, is it the E, H, & E report
put out by the MIA? Regardless, if YOUR slab wasn't part of the
research, it has zero bearing on your safety.
If nothing else, we have some film dosimeters that could be
used to test your stone we could send. The problem is that you
need to find the hot spots with a meter to know where to put the
dosimeters.
We get emails every day asking about common stones and our
standard reply is not to worry but do an inexpensive Radon test
for peace of mind. Be sure and test the entire home, not just
the kitchen. In your case, the odds of your stone being a safe
slab are around 1 in 20. It needs checked by someone
independent.
Al
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Al,
So what is safe? Is the 160 to 200 range safe?
-------------------------------------------------
Hi R*****,
These cases tend to bother me immensely. People that have
had us test their stone were usually extremely concerned, and
when they had kids, it kind of twists the stomach thinking if it
were my family that was worried. So if I offer too much
information, it is an effort to clear as many variables as
possible.
I personally feel that 20 to 25 u uR/hr is "safe".
-----------------------------------------------------
Hi Al,
Have you ever had any cases in Oklahoma? I don't really
want to divulge any other personal information because I would
not want to be included in any report.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
---------------------------------------
R*****,
Personally, here in Oklahoma, we have found Niagara Gold at
four locations. ******* Tile & Marble's OKC branch has some
that runs between 160 and 200 urem/hr, but we found a few slabs
at their Tulsa location that were under 100 urem/hr. *******
Internationale's Tulsa location had a Niagara Gold slab that was
under 40 urem/hr. ***** Design had some slabs that were over 400
urem/hr (one of the videos showed those). Wholesale Granite out
of ******** had slabs of Niagara Gold that were over 550
urem/hr.
I purchased a remnant from Wholesale Granite that was over
200 urem/hr, chopped it up into samples and sent them to the
researchers. Several independent labs showed over 500 pCi of
Radon emanating per square foot per hour from those Niagara Gold
samples. One expert has estimated that anything over 350 pCi
will raise the Radon levels in a modern home, but this science
of Radon emanation from granite is only a few years old and the
researchers have just now getting sufficiently hot samples. The
highest emanated Radon level found is now six times what it was
this spring. It would be amazing if we happened to find the
hottest stones right off the bat.
Then there was a sample of Niagara Gold at the CRCPD/AARST
Las Vegas conference last October that was over 1,000 urem/hr
and it was supposed to be some of the lower level spots from
that slab.
Al
-------------------------------------
Hi Al,
I also read in a report that even if you were exposed you
would have to basically lay on your counter for hours a day for
many years for it to affect you. That it is not like someone
smoking or someone mining the granite. And that we are naturally
exposed to radon everyday.
R*****
--------------------------
Hi R*****,
Most of those comments are from experts that cling to old
information. The EPA sent us the data table they had been
relying on that said granite had 5 pCi/g of radium. After we
showed them lab reports showing over 1,100 pCi/g of radium they
changed their website info, saying that some granite countertops
are above nuclear fuel source levels. If there were no concern,
neither the CRCPD or AARST would be setting standards and
protocols.
AL
-------------------------------------------------------
Hi Al,
What other recourse do you have other than tearing it all
out. I just had this installed? Will a radon tester that tests
your air give a good reading? We don't eat or prepare food on
our countertops and our house is very open with tall ceilings so
we have good ventilation. R*****
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
---------------------------------------
Hi R****,
Let's not borrow trouble. Hold off on any talk on tearing
out until the top is proven unsafe, please!A Radon
tester will measure the average concentration in the home air.
If you enclose the meter for a day or two, it will show how much
Radon is coming out of the stone. Forgive this horrible
comparison, but it is a good one. Consider a dog with gas laying
behind your recliner (yeah, this is personal). You get a pretty
good dose nearby but back in the bedroom it isn't noticeable
because it spreads out. Getting a concentrated dose of Radon
while using the counter isn't a good thing. The EPA and just
about everyone else says there is no safe level of
Radon.Ventilation is good. We are about to start ACH
testing (Air Changes) to see how it affects Radon levels.
If this turns out to be unsafe, the granite company will be
responsible for replacement. Safer granites are out there,
plenty of them. All will have a tiny risk, but nothing like the
average Niagara Gold.
Al
---------------------------------------------
Hi Al,
Ok, I will see if I can get a piece of our granite. I am
extremely upset now and scared. If we would have to tear this
out, do you think they would pay to replace even if I did not
purchase granite with them. I bought from Midwest. You said that
you do granite correct? I cannot tell you how upset I am, I have
been debating 2 years about replacing my countertops and now I
have a beautiful kitchen so this is extremely distressing. I
feel really foolish for not having educated myself on the Niagra
Gold, but that is not what I had intended to get until I went
and looked at it.
Thank you for all of your help.
R*****
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hi R*****,
Please relax until some basic testing is done. If this is a
recent purchase, you haven't had much exposure yet. Be
concerned, get it tested, hope it is a quiet slab.I buy
the occasional hot slab and work with it for hours on end,
laying out 3" grids, measuring each square, then cutting it into
samples for the researchers. We have a Radon room that I have to
enter on occasion to maintain equipment or replace samples. I
wear protective gear and limit my time as much as I can. I am
not scared of it, but I really, really, respect the dangers.
However, in my case, there is a public benefit for any exposure
I receive, just like an X ray gives you a dose but with a
overwhelming benefit of protecting your general
health.In your case, should the slab turn out to be hot,
the only benefit is having a very pretty countertop.
I wouldn't beat myself up over this, you did ask some
questions about the issue. The only mistake was trusting a
company that had a lot to lose, simple human nature is at play.
Please don't worry a lot, just keep the fan running a
few hours per day. If you were local, I'd test it for free. But
sending some samples will help. Try to pick samples that cover
the range of color and texture, still no guarantee they are
representative of any problem spots. We test every square foot
of every single slab before we purchase slabs.
AL
----------------------------------------------
Hi Al,
Are you any way associated with the EPA?
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
R*****
-------------------------------------------------
Hi R*****,
No, we have no association with any government
organization, but we have made a lot of friends since starting
working on the granite testing. I know the regional EPA head and
their radiation expert in Washington D.C., Setlow.
AL
---------------------
Hi Al,
I have been reading some postings online, is your last name
Gerhart?
R*****
---------------------
Hi R*****,
Yes, that would likely be me.
Al
-----------------------
End of emails.
Then the consumer stopped all contact. How do you go from
scared to dropping out completely? Note from the beginning, this
lady was searching for answers that fit her need for her
investment to turn out to be safe. She had one of the few stones
that has been tested by the researchers. Also, I did some
digging, it turns out the lady is a builder's wife in a nearby
town. The plot thickens, is this really her home or is she
asking about a granite in a home they sold?
Note that after being "extremely upset and scared", she
turns out to turn down an offer of free testing. And she knows
the place she bought it from is known for having hot Niagara
Gold slabs.
Many times I've been told by homeowners that they didn't
want to know if their countertop is one of the hot ones. This
kind of thinking is foreign to me, I'd want to know so I could
limit any risk. I wouldn't want to expose my family without
knowing once I knew there was a possibility of any risk. I
suspect this is the case with soil based Radon, but on steroids.
Not only is the investment much larger than a granite
countertop, it is likely they have lived with the risk for some
time before knowing. Perhaps a way out for these types is to
concentrate on how the problem can be fixed so they don't wind
up feeling helpless.
What do you guys think, was the info I provided too "scary"
or was it thorough? If too scary, how could one convince a
homeowner to test if you minimize the risks?
The other point is to consider the outrage if you spent
thousands of dollars on a product that was found to have some
increased level of risk. This risk was shared with
your family, including your kids. Worse, the risk
had been denied by that industry for a decade and a half, with
junk science used to mislead consumers.
So this Radon industry has limited funds and has to contend
with apathy? You need a handful of angry mothers for
allies. Consider who will own a granite countertop
as well, and it isn't Joe Sixpack.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Al
RN
PROF (subscription changes) -
http://list.uiowa.edu/archives/radonprofessionals.html RN LEADERS -
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