So will the A/C with the air handler in the basement, or a radon fan in the attic. Let's not go down this slippery slope.Tim MusserSent from myTouch 4G----- Reply message -----From: "David Daniels" To: "tamusser@rcn.com" Cc: "radon professionals" Subject: [RNPROF] RADONPROFESSIONALS Digest - 2 Apr 2011 to 3 Apr 2011 (#2011-101)Date: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:57 pmI had an inspector tall me if there was a fire in the basement, and the fan was still running, and the exhaust side opened up that you would fuel the fire. Maybe he was nuts, or maybe it is possible. And that is why most things are regulated, because of what is possible. David DanielsRadon Specialists of WIDMD Plumbing & ElectricDuoVac1-866-569-7236________________________________From: "tamusser@rcn.com" To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDUSent: Mon, April 4, 2011 11:10:36 AMSubject: Re: [RNPROF] RADONPROFESSIONALS Digest - 2 Apr 2011 to 3 Apr 2011 (#2011-101)I do not see any reason the fan would be more of a fire hazzard in the basement than in an attic. The motors all have thermal protection built in.My 2 centsTim MusserSent from myTouch 4G----- Reply message -----From: "David Daniels" To: Subject: [RNPROF] RADONPROFESSIONALS Digest - 2 Apr 2011 to 3 Apr 2011 (#2011-101)Date: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:09 amIsn't it also a fire hazard to have the fan in the basement?Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android ________________________________ From: Koehler.Larainne@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV ; To: ; Subject: Re: [RNPROF] RADONPROFESSIONALS Digest - 2 Apr 2011 to 3 Apr 2011 (#2011-101) Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:54:04 PM These are my personal historical observation and opinions - not meant to convey EPA policy. In fact Terry Brennan used that visual in a public meeting in Clinton, NJ as ASD systems were being developed in the 80's. He told the audience that he could imagine himself as a 9 year old boy playing with his parachute man by the radon vent. Even before Terry did the tracer gas studies mentioned, EPA's House Evaluation Program in Clinton did find re-entrainment. A quick experiment with the addition of flexible duct moving the exhaust from the band joist out away from the house clearly showed the drop in basement levels on a real time radon monitor. Now, many of the Clinton homes had very high radon levels, so the exhaust had far more activity to be re-entrained than a house a 20 pCi/l. If the fan is outside the living space, all of the piping in living space is under negative pressure and therefore you will only get air leaking into the pipe, you will not be PUSHING radon out of the pipe into the house. What happens when the band joist vent gets covered with snow,leaves or mulch in the future? When the landscaping grows in and prevents breezes from taking away the exhaust. Until every home has a reliable real-time radon monitor, you must rely on system durability and periodic measurements to know the radon level is low. The current systems, if installed properly and shown by a post-mitigation test to have reduced levels, are robust enough to continue to reduce levels while the fan is operating with little maintenance or attention by the homeowner. How much additional measurement of radon exhaust levels and wind conditions etc, distance to nearest home etc, would be needed for each house to determine if roof exhaust was needed. How much would that cost in time and additional training and equipment for staff and the building inspector from the local municipality to do that for each installation? What happens when the home inspector for a prospective buyer wants to see the documentation about why the exhaust doesn't go to the roof and the homeowner has lost it. By following the plumbing code, the installation and inspection are far more streamlined and potentially reliable. The comments above my personal historical observation and opinions - not meant to convey EPA policy. Larainne KoehlerRadon & Indoor Air CoordinatorRadiation and Indoor Air Branch - 25th FloorUS Environmental Protection Agency - Region 2290 BroadwayNew York, NY 10007-1866212-637-3745212-637-4942(fax)For radon information in New York, please call 1-800-458-1158 ext 27556 or visit http://www.nyhealth.gov/radiation For radon information in NJ, please call 1-800-648-0394 or visit http://www.state.nj.us/dep/rpp/radon/index.htmRadon & Indoor Air information is available from the EPA website at www.epa.gov/iaq From: Fraundorf Anthony To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU Date: 04/04/2011 08:56 AM Subject: Re: [RNPROF] RADONPROFESSIONALS Digest - 2 Apr 2011 to 3 Apr 2011 (#2011-101) Sent by: International Web Resource for Radon Professionals ________________________________ I have seen systems in place with venting through the rim joist that exhaust at the back porch step, where the grand children sit and play on a nice spring day. I think the standard is justified.A. Fraundorf. Phillips, WI________________________________________From: International Web Resource for Radon Professionals [RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU] On Behalf Of RADONPROFESSIONALS automatic digest system [LISTSERV@LIST.UIOWA.EDU]Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 10:00 PMTo: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDUSubject: RADONPROFESSIONALS Digest - 2 Apr 2011 to 3 Apr 2011 (#2011-101)There is 1 message totaling 188 lines in this issue.Topics of the day: 1. question about radon exhaust pipe vs. gas appliacne exhaust pipes----------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:33:07 -0400From: Randy Weestrand Subject: Re: question about radon exhaust pipe vs. gas appliacne exhaust pipesDavid & all,My 55 year old memory is certain to be flawed, but I recall being in a class in Minneapolis around 20 years ago where the new EPA protocols (no more fans in the basement with exhaust at grade) were discussed. As I recall, Terry Brennan, the instructor, described an experiment on a home with a fan in the basement and exhaust at grade. He injected a tracer gas into the sub slab area, then went upstairs by an open window to see if the tracer gas was detectable. It was. The results were made public. Soon after, at least partially as a result of the study, the EPA protocols prohibited basement fans and exhaust at grade. Terry said he protested the EPA's changes, saying that he did not see a problem with grade level exhaust in areas like Minneapolis, where it is rare to find indoor radon levels over 20 pCi/L. The EPA agreed that grade level exhaust was a problem only in homes with extremely high radon levels, but they wanted one rule for all homes, regardless of the radon level. I was left with the impression that the changes in protocols were not adequately supported by peer reviewed scientific study.Perhaps someone with first hand knowledge of this chain of events can clarify my recollection.Randy WeestrandRadon Removal Inc.952-476-6226rweestrand@aol.comwww.fixradon.com-----Original Message-----From: David Rhodes To: RADONPROFESSIONALS Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2011 1:14 pmSubject: [RNPROF] question about radon exhaust pipe vs. gas appliacne exhaust pipesA friend/radon client asked me: "Why does the EPA require the radon exhaust pipes be above the roof away from windows, etc., when a direct vent gas appliance (with its carbon monoxide, etc.) can be within 4 ft. of an open window?" I thought this would be a good question to pose to the group. 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