David, For both of your points, builder & mitigator malfeasance, the only solution seems to be Building Code enforcement. That leads to the next question: What is AARST or the EPA doing to get radon issue code enforcement?Second question: Why can't we put a "Builder Responsibility Cause" into RRNC 2.0, where he would be held responsible for bring into compliance any found deficiencies? We can write anything into our code we agree to, can't we?Tony All the best,Tony Kiburis Radon Reduction Services, LLCNEHA Certification No. 104249 RMT Tele: 603-924-2949Fax: 877-504-1028 From: Dave Hill To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [RNPROF] capping passive system. - RRNC 2.0 The current draft can be found at www.radonstandards.org. No standards or codes that I know of have penalties. Penalties are implemented by the State, County, Township, or licensing/certifying body. While we throw stones at the builders, remember there are many in our ranks that do not follow the standards and codes for installing ASD systems. Standard/code enforcement is a major problem in every contracting field. Dave HillRadonAway From: International Web Resource for Radon Professionals [mailto:RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony KiburisSent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:16 AMTo: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDUSubject: Re: [RNPROF] capping passive system. - RRNC 2.0 I do not think the RRNC 2.0, which is currently under revision, has no builder accountability provision.What is his penalty for not properly implementing the RRNC
standard ( insufficient suction points, not pitching the pipe properly, not leaving sufficient clearances to install a fan, no power outlet near fan site, no caulking of the floor to wall joints, etc.)Will somebody on that Committee please fill us in on this subject?Thanks,TonyI All the best,Tony Kiburis Radon Reduction Services, LLCNEHA Certification No. 104249 RMT Tele: 603-924-2949Fax: 877-504-1028 From: Tony Kiburis To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:59 AMSubject: Re: [RNPROF] capping passive system. Bob,The solution to getting the attention of the builder/sub-contractor community is to reinstate the oldest building codes recorded, that is those of Hammurabi, King of Babylon, 1,792 - 1,50BC (about 2,275 years ago). Please substitute "Suffers Lung Cancer" each place Hammurabi uses the word "Kill"; this will update it to current radon standards. Hammurabi's Code of Laws:229. If a builder build a house for some one, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built fall in and
kill its owner, then that builder shall be put to death.230. If it kill the son of the owner the son of that builder shall be put to death. 231. If it kill a slave of the owner, then he shall pay slave for slave to the owner of the house. 232. If it ruin goods, he shall make compensation for all that has been ruined, and inasmuch as he did not construct properly this house which he built and it fell, he shall re-erect the house from his own means.My sick humor aside, the point is that the builder/ sub-contractor community will continue to install ineffective/inefficient RRNC systems because they are driven by cost containment issues or radon system ignorance. I predict this will continue until good RRNC Standards are enforced by National, State, & City Building Codes are enforced by a radon knowledgeable Building Inspectors. Until that time, we (front line mitigators, home inspectors, AARST & EPA) need to educate the home owner that current building standards do not necessarily generate good RRNC practices. There may be problems with the existing RRNC components in your home. I will inspect them & give you my best professional radon opinion what is workable & what needs to be replaced.
Tony All the best,Tony Kiburis Radon Reduction Services, LLCNEHA Certification No. 104249 RMT Tele: 603-924-2949Fax: 877-504-1028 From: Bob Mahoney To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:56 AMSubject: Re: [RNPROF] capping passive system. Nice list Tony. Sounds like we have had the same experiences with builders. I have given presentations at the builders home offices for their site forman for virtually every large builder in the Albany area and still all these things on Tony's list happen. I hand out diagrams and schematics to no avail. Too many subs are involved. I do however make the necessary alterations to make the existing passive system work and then I adjust the invoice verbally from the site with the office manager and get approval and bill
them accordingly. If they want me to do the work that is how it works. About half of the builders I work for have me install the entire system when the house is framed and before the basement floor is poured. They then sell the Radon mitigation system as an "option" on the optios pages of the new construction contract with the home buyer. Homebuyers tell me they mark up the price I charge about 2.5 - 3 times. Regards, Bob Mahoney----- Original Message ----- From: Tony McDonald To: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:38 PMSubject: Re: [RNPROF] capping passive system. I did. Below is an abridged list of reasons why:1. Pipe in the attic that exits the roof is so low that there is no room for a fan.2. No power in
the portion of the attic that has the pipe.3. Passive system pipe in the basement is tied into the plumbing vent stack in the attic.4. Pipe that is sloped the wrong direction.5. Incorrectly supported pipes.6. Pipe that is squeezed into a wall cavity that will vibrate the drywall when the fan is installed.7. Systems constructed out of ABS pipe. It always whistles like it is leaking.8. Suction pipes that are embedded in the footer or the soil.9. Piping configurations that do not treat every slab.10. And my personal favorite: entire passive systems that are put together without gluing any of the joints! Can you imagine the drywall damage, mold, and mildew this causes. I have seen this happen.A passive system in our area is usually a pipe from the basement through the roof. We have to do everything else. Attached is a picture of a passive system the homeowner paid $800 for. The builder called the short pipe on the right a passive system. I called it the beginning of a passive system. We ignored it and installed our system to the left of it. - Tony McDonald Vice PresidentA-Z Radon Services, LLC330.353.3094www.azradon.com From: International Web Resource for Radon
Professionals [mailto:RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDU] On Behalf Of Celia RajkovichSent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:07 PMTo: RADONPROFESSIONALS@LIST.UIOWA.EDUSubject: [RNPROF] capping passive system. Who was it that wrote that they ignore a passive system if its installed, cap it on the roof and put their own
system in? I don't understand why you would do this.celiaRadon Professionals - Subscription changes and archives - http://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=RADONPROFESSIONALS&A=1Radon Professionals - Subscription changes and archives - http://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=RADONPROFESSIONALS&A=1 No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5065 - Release Date: 06/12/12Radon Professionals - Subscription changes and archives - http://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=RADONPROFESSIONALS&A=1 Radon Professionals - Subscription changes and archives - http://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=RADONPROFESSIONALS&A=1 Radon Professionals - Subscription changes and archives - http://list.uiowa.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=RADONPROFESSIONALS&A=1
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From Name
Tony Kiburis
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repairs10@YAHOO.COM